Dr. Kshama Metre – India 2017 Transcript

April 6, 2017

Dharamsala, India

The Karuna Project – Mount Madonna School

Ward Mailliard: These are students from Mount Madonna School, this is this year’s graduating class of seniors. And everybody I’ve met that’s been associated with Swami Chinmayananda have been fabulous people and this is one of the most- one of the greatest examples of effective service that I’ve seen in India, and it’s due to the sincerity, and hard work, and perseverance of Dr. Metre and all the people around her. So with that, if you have any opening remarks you’d like to make, otherwise they’re prepared with questions.

Kshama Metre: Ok, I just want to welcome you all of you, I feel very good to see young people getting interested in development. So congratulations. When you ask me questions, please give me your names so that I can sort of remember you by your name a little. Sadanand ji, it’s his other name, Mr. Ward’s, which I like. So I look forward to your questions and to your introduction and why you are here, what- how long you’ve spent in India, a little about you so that I know what is- it’s been like.

Isabella Bettencourt: We are here for two weeks and we go around different places and we’re trying to take in as much as we can and we’re using everything we see and everything we hear as an opportunity to further our education and experience a different culture, and our hope at the end of the trip it to have reached some sort of new threshold of knowledge that we can have and bring back with us and share.

Kshama Metre: You’re very lucky to do it at this age so that you have a long life ahead where you would be using this growth within your own self and another dimension of yourself. So questions, anything you’d like me to continue with?

Aki’o Nanamura: Hi, my name’s Aki’o. In a previous interview with Mount Madonna School you said, “take the journey within, and the one without won’t be so daunting.” We heard something very similar yesterday in our conversations with both Rinchen Khando and Samdong Rinpoche. Since we don’t come from a culture that generally supports this kind of introspection, what would you say are the basic steps we can take to begin the journey within?

Kshama Metre: I’ll just relate a little story, that I learned from a two-and-a-half-year girl. Many years ago, when I had come here to the Ashram, I went back to Delhi to be with my brother and his little daughter. I had come out of the washroom and I’d had a good bath and a shower and everything, washed my hair and everything, so I’ve taken long. I came out and she said to me, “Auntie, you had a body bath?” I said, “yes.” “Did you have it with soap?” I said, “yes.” “Did you have a mind bath?” So I asked her, “what is mind bath?” She said, “come and sit on the bed.” So she sat on the bed, the way you are sitting, you know this is called sukhasan, you sit where you’re comfortable nicely with your back strait like this girl is sitting, and she said, “for five minutes, just be quiet, and think of the lord if you like, and be quiet for five minutes.” I said, “ok.” So we did it. She said, “just like you apply soap to the body, and clean yourself every day, you must also have a mind bath every day.” I was amazed. So I asked her, “where did you learn this?” She said she was going to a play school, and her nursery teacher when they came to school these little kids, she told them this and for five minutes, all the kids sat down for five minutes. Now she’s a little older than all of you, ok. But that little teacher’s teaching, has been a long way to know about one’s self. So there’s not much one needs to do. One needs just to be quiet within, and feel your own presence of being blissful, silent- which is creative, and your own being- the being that you are, just feel that. Five minutes in the morning when you get up, and five minutes in the evening to start with. Later on you would like to enjoy it more and more, and that will give you the amount of rest and relaxation many times more than we get in sleep. So you’re ready, energetic for the whole day. And your creativity is at a good level. So try. It’s only by practicing that we will know what we’re all about. So that’s very simple, natural, way of diving within.

Ward Mailliard: Can you say something about, you said, “silence that is creative,” will you say a little something about that?

Kshama Metre: Yeah, because that silence gives you so much relaxation, you enter that level of your mind which we have not used, and that creativity is there in each one of us, it will emerge. We don’t have to do much, it’s effortless.

Savannah Willoughby: My name’s Savannah.

Kshama Metre: Savannah, what a beautiful name.

Savannah Willoughby: Oh, thank you. When you took the leap of faith to join CORD, was there any doubt or resistance from within you, your family, or friends?

Kshama Metre: Really, these are good questions. When I was just about to join, I landed into a very good private practice in Delhi. It came to my lap almost, because there was a very famous pediatrician who was murdered so his whole practice came to me. That was the time I decided to leave. So people thought I’d gone crazy. And after a few days I’d already decided I was leaving and I was sort of allocating my patients to different pediatricians, there was an international pediatric conference in Delhi, which I attended. So everyone came to know I was leaving, and they said, “you’ve gone crazy. What’s wrong with you? You’re getting into the real cream of the work.” And I said, “no, I’m not crazy.” It’s a far, far better thing that I do than I’ve ever done before. Tale of two cities, it’s a far, far better place that I go to than I’ve ever been before. So, I didn’t feel I’m doing anything different, I was very happy about my decision. And as far as my family’s concerned, they said, “Oh.” You know they had their little doubts, but I said I’d be happy and for us, I have a good family, for them it’s important that we be happy, so if you’re happy then it’s fine, so it was alright. They had their questions, they asked me many questions. But I said, “I’m happy,” and they said, “if you’re happy, then we’re happy.” Yes.

Amelia Busenhart: Hi, my name is Amelia.

Kshama Metre: Amelia, Savannah. They all sound very rhythmic.

Amelia Busenhart: Were there any obstacles in CORD’s process of creating self-help groups in the 564 villages of the Kangra district?

Kshama Metre: In the beginning, yes. Because, not- I wouldn’t say obstruction, but they never known about such a thing that can exist, and a little apprehensive about where the money would go, but when we told them, “we’re not going to touch your money, your money is going to be within your own group, there is no issue with your money going somewhere else.” Because you see sometimes other people who have been doing, lending to the people, have cheated them by saying, “you will get a lot of money.” Taking all of their money and saying they’ll get a lot of interest back. So that kind of thing would not happen to them, but they were a little apprehensive. We settled them by saying, “we won’t touch your money. The money will be within your own group, in circulation, and when you have a lot of money, you can put it into the bank.” So they were fine, they had no problem.

Amelia Busenhart: Thank you.

Caroline Smith: Hi, my name’s Caroline.

Kshama Metre: Caroline is a famous name so I will remember that.

Caroline Smith: In your experience developing CORD, part of the process must be helping leaders to emerge. Can you talk about the qualities in a leader or someone you with to mentor?

Kshama Metre: If I’m looking for a leader, first I have to have the qualities that I want the other person to have. Because qualities that are most important for a leader, is to be able to listen, and listen by being in the shoes of the other who’s telling you. Because everyone has something to say, they’re not agree with what I’m trying to- I think. So the best quality of a leader is to be able to listen to people. A leader should also be doing what he talks about. So you can’t say something to someone and not be doing it yourself. A leader should have passion for the work they want. It should not be a job, if it’s a job, it becomes a laborers thing. Just being a laborer you know? Someone has to force you to do something. But if it is your own self-motivation. So leader must have these few qualities to go ahead with his leadership, and that is enough. You’re a good leader, you do what you say, you’re passionate about your job or what you’re doing, you’re enjoying it, it doesn’t tire you. You know? Self-motivated. Then the other leadership will come through, because everyone has that within them, its only about discovering it, for each one to discover it within themselves.

Izabella Thomas: Hi, my name’s Izzy. In a previous interview with our school, you talked about teaching people to overcome superstition related to the medical field. Can you explain more about the challenges and ways you have dealt with these superstitions?

Kshama Metre: Good. It’s not so much now, but earlier when we started our work, people have different kinds of beliefs in different areas. Each local area will have a context of beliefs that are not founded on any truth. So here people would believe different things that some bad omen has come, that’s why this person is ill. So what they think is that if some bad omen has come, then you have to call some, here is a word they call chela, chela is almost like a witchcraft man. So you know, he’ll come to the house and he’ll perform some rituals and say now that bad omen, or whatever is happening to you is gone. But you actually have a disease that actually needs to be cured, and you waste all those years thinking now it’s gone. You know, those kinds of things. Or, and you know, these people would also take their payment in different way. They’re not very right people, you had to pay them by giving them a bottle of alcohol, a few cocks and hens for them to eat. So those were the things that would go around in the village. Or sometimes they believe, righty so for their own convenience, the traditional birth attendants, that if you didn’t give the baby in the womb enough to eat, it would come out small so it would be easy. The birth delivery would be easy. Sometimes you have to face those kinds of things. Not difficult when you explain to them, you listen to them and you try to explain where it comes from.

Isabella Bettencourt: Hi, again, I’m Bella. I have two questions. So, the first one is, has working with CORD changed the way you look at human rights?

Kshama Metre: Changed the way?

Isabella Bettencourt: You look at human rights. And then, the second one is, what does true equality mean to you?

Kshama Metre: Ok. See, I don’t think working in CORD has changed much how I see human rights. If I demand something for myself, I must have that for the other person too, it’s as easy as that, human rights is as easy as that. So when you grow up with a balanced mind, you start seeing that everyone must have that kind of right that I have, the entitlement to, because I belong to a privileged family, or a privileged whatever it is. And your other question was about?

Isabella Bettencourt: What does true equality mean to you?

Kshama Metre: Even for rights, I must say something. Before I demand any right, I must know my duties. Otherwise, it becomes too much of demanding, and demand, and desires, never get fulfilment. So if I understand my own duties, I will understand other people’s rights too. Sometimes our rights may not be so right, for my own growth. Let me just give an example. See, if you (can’t understand), you will see. So you have to be able to see what my duty is, what love is about, and then demand. So suppose all of you came together and I had only this room to give it to you, you know, “I need my right of space, and I need this, and I need that,” then, it’s about too much of demanding. “Ok, fine, I can do it, for a few days, doesn’t matter.” You know, that kind of right has many connotations too. So we must first be able to say, “have I done my duty for looking after everyone, for being responsible to others?” Then, ask for rights. Rights should not ever cause aggressiveness.

You asked about equality. What does equality mean to me? Equality means not being greedy. Because now, when we look at equality in many ways, we have become too consumer minded and we have destroyed the environment around us, ok? So we might be thinking of equality in many other levels, but we are not being equal to the nature too, we are destroying nature, it will ultimately destroy us but- So equality has so many dimensions. The simplest way is to be able to give people equal kinds of privilege that each one of us enjoy, equal kinds of opportunities that we all enjoy, and people who are vulnerable have difficulty, think of their accessibilities to those kinds of- things that I can access. Like a person who is physically handicapped cannot access and come upstairs, so maybe if they’re coming and I don’t have a life, I have to make sure that I have the whole thing for them is arranged downstairs. And if I have a new building, how much accessibility can I arrange for them? They have the rights for accessibility that bodies should not become a barrier for them to access other things. So equality has many dimension, but I think the simple way is what I said, that is what it means to me Bella.

Nathan Vince: So, hi, my name’s Nate.

Kshama Metre: Ok Nate, tell me.

Nathan Vince: So in an article with The Guardian you said, “it was the people who decided their needs, which were wide ranging. You have to look at a person and what they need, and work from there.” What is your process of prioritizing the projects of those you serve and pinpointing the most pressing need?

Kshama Metre: See, we work mostly with the poor and the underprivileged. But even in a group of poor people who sit together, like we’re sitting together, we sit like this, and it’s easy to look at their priorities rather than what my program is here in my mind. I don’t go there and I’m like, “ok I’ve come for and I’m giving you just one program, health, ok?” Her difficulty may be something with a child that needs some health intervention, his difficulty may be something he doesn’t know where to earn his living, you know what to do about it, he doesn’t have any money to run his own family, her problem may be an alcoholic husband who beats her up every day. So everyone talks about their different issues, but together we start looking at what are the visible solutions to whatever the problem is. And based on those needs, the community came together because we started addressing them as best we could, it’s not like we started resolving everything ok? And from that came the different programs you see in CORD, which addresses many of the issues that the poor people usually face. That’s easy. Once you start connecting with people and stop making your own program, top to down, you work from down, things start happening. Because you start harnessing their strengths too, their decisions, their wisdom, their insights. So it works in so many ways, not just me working, the other person is also working with me to resolve the issue.

Nathan Vince: Thank you.

Kshama Metre: Thank you Nate.

Kayla Cytron-Thaler: Hi, my name’s Kayla.

Kshama Metre: Kela? You know what Kela means in Hindi?

Kayla Cytron-Thaler: Yeah, banana.

Kshama Metre: I’m sure many people told you already.

Kayla Cytron-Thaler: Through your work in rural India, dealing with health, women’s equality, and economic development, are you concerned that the good parts of village life and rural culture may be diminished in the face of a growing capacity to consume?

Kshama Metre: Ok Kayla, really wise question. I also think about this very often. We should not destroy the beauty of diversity all over the world, it has its own beauty. Like I’m enjoying you being here, you’re different, you have different backgrounds, but it’s a great enjoyment, isn’t it? So diversity is beautiful. But unity and diversity is another question, but diversity should not be destroyed. So village life and urban life have their own plus points. But if I were to make all villages like urban areas, then what was there in the village we would lose? So in our work, we try not to- we would like to bring prosperity to them, but I say not the urban way, the rural way, I keep working at that. To make prosperity come the rural way rather than the urban way. Which is not easy Kayla, it’s not easy at all, because there’s such a big global environmental circumstances, changes that are carrying all over. But I think we should all stride with it because after few- many years we will have everything looking the same all over the world. Concrete building, concrete people, everything concrete. That would be the loss of a lot of fun.

Ward Mailliard: We noticed at our ashram in Haridwar, we have an orphanage and a school, and it’s in a village area, Shyampur village, it’s partly Muslim- mostly Muslim in the village and partly Hindu. When they talk about success, somebody has graduated, gone to college and has a job in Gurgaon.

Kshama Metre: It’s great. And then moves away to the US is greater.

Ward Mailliard: Exactly. And so then I wonder, heaven is not in the cities I don’t think.

Kshama Metre: Not at all.

Ward Mailliard: I think it’s more in the rural areas, wonder if we could change the story.

Kshama Metre: We’ll get all of you (can’t understand).

Ward Mailliard: Exactly.

Kshama Metre: That is going to be very difficult because I try, I don’t- because when we work with (can’t understand) I do not agree to work at things that are going to make people migrate to urban areas. I try to do things that will make their own rural area interesting to them. But a drop here and a drop there is not going to make that much of a change, but we can all try.

Tara Ching: Hi, my name is Tara.

Kshama Metre: Tara. Tara is star.

Tara Ching: Yeah. Martha Nussbaum, a professor in Greek philosophy, talks about the fact that sometimes you have to make choices where there is no clear overriding good and there will be some negative consequences no matter what you do. Have you ever been faced with one of these decisions and if so, what impact did it have on you?

Kshama Metre: Certain choices that might have certain negative impacts, that’s what you’re trying to say?

Tara Ching: If you’ve come across a decision where neither option seems like the right one.

Kshama Metre: Oh yes.

Tara Ching: How do you choose?

Kshama Metre: I’m going through that just now. It’s a personal thing, because I told Sadanand ji that I may not be here on the sixteenth, and my sister is ill, I might be with her, in the hospital in Delhi. And I’m at that stage even now, because she has a condition where if she goes for an operation, she might die on the table, but if you do nothing about it, she will suffer very dangerously very soon. So the choice is very difficult and I’ve sort of weighed many pros and cons, with myself and with the family. Since she looks fine now and is running her life is all right and she’s old and frail, for the time being, I’ve decided not to do anything. And it’s not a choice I will is either right or wrong. It’s difficult, so sometimes in life, we have to make choices, but when we make a choice for the time being, we must make the best of it. So I’m praying, and all of us are enjoying her as much as we can for the time being. That’s it. It’s a difficult situation. All decisions we make may not be right, but if we pray and make them and ask for the lord and the cosmos to guide us, and we do our best all the time, ok, that’s the best we can do, ok? So yes, we come across such times, and it’s not easy Tara. But most times, this is a very rare thing, it’s happened to me for the first time in my life, this kind of decision. Other times, you have to weigh mostly that you don’t cause any harm to anyone whatever choice you make, or you cause the least harm to the person.

Ward Mailliard: Martha Nussbaum was a Greek philosopher- she was a teacher of Greek philosophy and the question sometimes, which- it’s Agamemnon’s question- which of these choices is without harm? And when we’ve lived as long as you and I have lived, sometimes there’s things in life that you just have to carry and I think it’s an understanding that often young people don’t have because we live in the realm of right and wrong. But somethings you have to bear, you just have to carry. And I think as you’re saying with faith and prayer and perhaps that’s the best way we can carry them.

Kshama Metre: Yes. I think that’s the easiest way to do it, the best way to do it for all of us. But be careful when you make certain difficult decisions.

Devyn Powers: Hi, my name’s Devyn.

Kshama Metre: Devyn.

Devyn Powers: And my question is, has there ever been points in your career where you’ve had to take substantial risks, what allowed you to persevere and take any necessary chances to achieve your goal?

Kshama Metre: Everyone is very intelligent, I must say. Life is full of risk. There is risk everywhere. And a business man takes risk many times, a successful business man is someone who is able to take risks. But when he takes risks, he takes all of the precautions too, and makes sure he has the ability to face that risk and its outcomes. So facing risk cannot be the same for everyone. When we take risk, a lot depends on what is my ability to face what may be a negative outcome too. If I have that ability, face it, and take it. Otherwise, we will never grow. But all people may not have the ability to take the risk. But a person who does not have the ability to face this risk, may have the ability to face other risk. Because we all have different abilities and capabilities, so it all depends on ourselves too. If it is a company, it depends on the company, ok? So, risks can be taken, and should be taken, for growth to happen, but should be taken with a lot of precaution, understanding, and (can’t understand).

Aki’o Nanamura: Hi, it’s me again. Is there any advice you’ve received that was instrumental in helping you to develop as a more caring and effective person in your work?

Kshama Metre: There’s so many advices that we receive and Aki’o wants me to say only once advice. That’s very difficult question Aki’o. I think nothing works for us in life as much as just enjoying love, nothing better than that. Nothing more. It’s easy, it makes us feel happy, and it makes others happy too. And love is all about unconditional love. And it is expansive, always expansive. Not restrictive, not restrictive.

Isaac Harris: My name is Isaac.

Kshama Metre: Ok Isaac.

Isaac Harris: So which aspect of your work provides you with the most gratification?

Kshama Metre: Which aspect of my work-

Ward Mailliard: I hope you’re having fun with these questions.

Kshama Metre: Yeah I’m having fun, I’m having great fun, I have to start thinking you know? I was sitting relaxed in my room, and which aspect of my work makes me feel very happy? When I see people flowering, blossoming with their potential, that makes me very happy. Because everyone has that potential but sometimes because of their circumstances might believe that they are less, but they are not less. So when they start realizing and coming up in life and doing what they- what makes them happy and enjoying it, that makes me happy too. So we, over the last thirty years, have seen many of that happening. So it’s good, it’s really good, Isaac.

Amelia Busenhart: Hello, Amelia again.

Kshama Metre: Yes, Amelia.

Amelia Busenhart: In the course of your work, what aspects do you feel have been the most successful?

Kshama Metre: I think working with the people in groups, allowing community based organizations to do active participatory work where they start making decisions, taking responsibility, taking ownership, that makes me very happy. That is the real success. If I have to go to a group and see they are doing things themselves and growing, well that’s great.

Vibhuti Aggarwal: Hi, I’m Vibhuti.

Kshama Metre: Yes, Vibhuti.

Vibhuti Aggarwal: I know that CORD has been here for many years and it’s almost reached almost all aspects of people’s lives in the villages, I’m curious to know what your vision for CORD is.

Kshama Metre: See, we have a vision statement. It’s about transforming people through their own potentials, that’s the vision for CORD. In rural India, mostly areas that have not been reached, we would like to reach those areas that have not been reached yet. Because even some parts of rural India very close to the cities will probably be organized very soon, so we want to reach all those areas more, Vibhuti.

Ward Mailliard: Ok, I want to take a beat here, I want to ask a question, and then I want to ask them a question.

Kshama Metre: Ok.

Ward Mailliard: So what I want to ask you is, how much fun are you having?

Kshama Metre: Just now, I’m having great fun.

Ward Mailliard: And how much fun are you having in life in general?

Kshama Metre: Lot of fun. I think I’m here because I’m having fun.

Ward Mailliard: Yeah.

Kshama Metre: I would not be here if I was not having fun.

Ward Mailliard: So the point of the question is that people who give of themselves in the manner of which Dr. Metre gives, have more fun.

Kshama Metre: And even if you’re doing any other thing, I’m not- I sort of, as I’m growing older I realize that wherever you are, be with yourself in the present, even if you’re in a corporate sector, do a lot of good with all the money that you get for others that may not be directly doing it. You know? And enjoy whatever you’re doing in your work. So, yes, I agree with him that you give a lot, giving is a great joy. But earning that giving with the right methods is also very important. If I earn a lot by stealing from her and giving it to her, that may not be very good.

Ward Mailliard: She won’t like it anyway. So the question for you guys is, what have you heard Dr. Metre say so far that has had meaning for you. Amelia?

Amelia Busenhart: I was thinking that your whole approach, the simplicity of your answers just makes it feel very achievable. Just saying that love is expansive and there’s so much of it, doesn’t make it feel like the hardest task. And there isn’t some big like instrumental thought that I have to follow in order to get somewhere.

Kshama Metre: Yes, it’s easy, isn’t it easy?

Amelia Busenhart: Yeah.

Nathan Vince: I found what you said about equality was just really interesting. About how it extends beyond just people, the equality between us and our environment. And I think that’s such a hot topic right now with global warming and just equality as a term in general. So the way that you just kind of simply laid it out there, I thought that was really inspiring.

Kshama Metre: Thank you.

Nathan Vince: Thank you.

Isabella Bettencourt: I thought it was interesting what you said about the mind bath.

Kshama Metre: Isn’t that? Bella if you carry that mind bath with you, do it yourself and do it with- let others do it. You will have great fun.

Isabella Bettencourt: Yeah. I thought it was really interesting that somebody so young could bring that idea forth and could think so deeply about that. And the fact that an educator brought that exercise into her life was really cool.

Kshama Metre: Thank you.

Kayla Cytron-Thaler: I also agree with the mind bath, it’s only- I don’t know how many minutes are in a day- but of that, only ten minutes you have to spend, and too often we’re just go, go, go, go, and we forget to take that five minutes of our day to just relax.

Kshama Metre: You can reach twenty minutes ok? Twenty minutes in the morning, twenty minutes in the evening.

Kayla Cytron-Thaler: We’ll start with five.

Kshama Metre: Gradually it will come to you.

Emma Peterson: I really appreciated what you said about keeping like the traditions in the villages and like adding on to them. I’m a teacher and I have a lot of students that speak Spanish, is their predominant language. And my challenge is keeping their language- I want them to keep their language, I don’t want them to have to abandon that and have to move into English, I want to continue to grow with their language and with English.

Kshama Metre: Oh, that’s very good.

Emma Peterson: So I really respect what you had to say about that, thank you.

Courtney Bess: I really liked that you said it makes you happy to see people blossom and see people reaching their full potential because I’m also a teacher, and every time somebody asks me why I teach, why I love to do that, my response is always that I love being able to give young minds, I guess, the tools they need to reach that full potential and giving them that opportunity. And then I also liked what you said about wherever you are, just be there. I’ve been reading this book called “Where You Go, There You Are”, and it’s just about mindfulness in the moment and I think that’s something everyone should strive to achieve. Just being present.

Kshama Metre: Thank you. That’s great. I think we all need to do that, isn’t it?

Aki’o Nanamura: I love how you just took the extra step to learn all of our names and address us by name, it felt like more of a conversation than just like, ask question, answer, stuff like that. And then the other thing you said about how when taking risks, you always have to be prepared to be met with negative results and failure and stuff like that, I feel like that’s a very important quality to have, just be accepting and like willing to jump into something without knowing fully what the outcomes going to be like.

Ward Mailliard: Vibhuti, did we pass you by?

Vibhuti Aggarwal: I’ve been having this conversation with Sadanand ji about leadership and what everybody whose been doing great work have in common. And I’m completely surprised how all of you just realized that listening is so important, empathy is so important, and I’m just like, “wow”, how did they figure that out? And it’s really nice for me to know that, yeah, that everybody has these qualities and that’s what makes them great leaders.

Kshama Metre: Thank you Vibhuti, yes, that’s important isn’t it?

Vibhuti Aggarwal: Yes.

Kshama Metre: And each one is a leader.

Vibhuti Aggarwal: Yeah.

Ward Mailliard: So Vibhuti has worked with Teach for India. And also with the Youth Alliance in Delhi, and she’s part and parcel of a group of young people that I admire a lot.

Kshama Metre: Ok, that’s great. We had Teach for India, two groups came here, one in December, one in January. About 880 or so.

Vibhuti Aggarwal: I was a part of that.

Kshama Metre: Oh, did you come?

Vibhuti Aggarwal: Yeah.

Kshama Metre: Ok. Ok, Vibhuti.

Vibhuti Aggarwal: And I would also want to add that I was really overwhelmed then, to understand and be here for a few days. But now when went around this campus- we did not have a chance to go around this campus when we were here, we went to the villages- and it’s just so amazing to see what has happened, and I’m completely overwhelmed that it’s reached all aspects. And how you said that it’s about listening to people and the entire organization got built on what somebody needed and processes came about to help that.

Kshama Metre: That’s it. Isaac.

Isaac Harris: So I really liked what you said about leadership a lot, and how coming into small groups and empowering the group. I think it made every individual kind of a leader and watching the video before you came in and watching the interactions the group had with men or anyone who might be disadvantaging women. It just really seemed like they all were totally invested and all- they just looked like leaders, you know?

Kshama Metre: Thank you Isaac. So you said you saw our movie? Call Kushi, she’s come from her school for a holiday. The movie that you saw, Kushi, you saw that? She’s here?

Isabella Bettencourt: Yeah we met her.

Ward Mailliard: Some of you met her?

Kshama Metre: Because she’s got some holidays now, so she’s staying here for a little while.

Caroline Smith: Well when you said that everyone has different abilities and capabilities to take on certain risks, I thought that was really interesting because I had never thought about it like that before.

Kshama Metre: Yes, everyone has it.

Savannah Willoughby: It’s kind of the same thing Nate was saying, how the equality with the environment, because I plan to become a marine biologist so I can help conserve the ocean and things like that, so it’s very important to me to conserve our environment. So it was nice to talk about it in an equality sort of sense. Because even I hadn’t thought of it like that, so thank you.

Kshama Metre: Thank you Savannah.

Ward Mailliard: You guys good? Ok. Now you understand why I love, admire, and respect this woman. Right? You got it. Why it was important for you guys to be here. Because you can feel it in the room, right? I’m watching you as your listening and I can see people being filled up in a certain way. And I think it is the simplicity, but it takes a lot of work to get to simplicity. But I’m always inspired when I sit with you, because it reminds me that it doesn’t have to be complicated. So you always inspire me to try again.

Kshama Metre: Thank you so much, thank you so much Sadanand ji. Here’s Kushi. She’s studying, she’s now in the ninth grade?

Kushi: Tenth.

Kshama Metre: Tenth. Just got into the tenth grade, yeah? Or you’re appeared for the tenth grade, just appeared for the tenth grade exam. So if you want to ask her something, you can ask her. She’s learning a little English so-

Ward Mailliard: Yeah? Anybody have a question for her? We saw her on the movie, she’s a movie star. Where is she in school now?

Kshama Metre: In Chandighar. In a hostel. So she’s studying there.

Ward Mailliard: Nice. And what-

Kshama Metre: And (can’t understand) was very nice to take over her, so she’s getting sponsored.

Ward Mailliard: And what are you studying? She’s going into tenth, so soon she has to- she’s picking her stream right?

Kshama Metre: Yes, tell them what you are you interested in?

Kushi: Journalist.

Kshama Metre: Her mother was here with us last night. Her mother lives in a- that’s a complicated story. Her mother lives in a house, very close, about four or five kilometers away. Her father-in-law has not yet given her the space for her to build a toilet. You know, there’s a whole story that’s been going on for years where we fought for some space for her and then we got that space, but that space for the toilet didn’t come. So we’re fighting for the space for the toilet. And this young lady doesn’t like to go home there because she’s gotten used to having a toilet. So, so we said ok, she stays with us.

Ward Mailliard: Ok. What’s the hardest subject?

Kushi: Math.

Ward Mailliard: Math? That’s a universal answer in India. So you know, we have the Sri Ram Ashram and school that we have near Haridwar, Shyampur village just outside Haridwar. I hope someday, that it would be a wonderful thing to have a visit. And when you visit, bring her along, she’d make a lot of friends there. We spend four days there, and that’s a place we go to fall in love.

Kshama Metre: So you really expose them to many new things, don’t you?

Ward Mailliard: What did you learn at Sri Ram Ashram? We have about 60 children there, that have been abandoned. They’re no longer abandoned there, now they’re part of a big family. What did you learn there?

Savannah Willoughby: I learned that language doesn’t necessarily mean that you will have a connection or not. Because there was this little girl that didn’t- she was really new to the Ashram so she didn’t know English, but we were like best-friends there the entire time.

Kshama Metre: Oh wow, great.

Savannah Willoughby: We would play hand games, and we would count all the time, because she was like a little girl, but anyway, but we didn’t really need language.

Kshama Metre: You got it.

Ward Mailliard: What else did you learn there?

Isabella Bettencourt: I learned that love doesn’t always have to be slowly developed, it just (can’t understand), even if it’s a new relationship.

Kshama Metre: Yes.

Ward Mailliard: I always say we go to the Ashram to get adopted. When we go there, we get adopted.

Kshama Metre: That’s great. I mean I’m so happy Sadanand ji that you’re doing this for them. That you’re actually exposing them to another part, you’re not exposing them to just urban India, the big city, but to the rest of the world. At this age, so these people are going to be become very good, balanced, wise, human beings. That’s very important, your school is- really thinks big to make you all get exposed to all kinds of things. Thank you.

Ward Mailliard: Bella, you want to ask our last question then, and then we’ll let Dr. Metre get back to her busy life?

Isabella Bettencourt: So, I was wondering if you had any advice for us as young people who are about to go out into the world for the first time on our own?

Kshama Metre: Know yourself. Once you know yourself, you know everyone else. That’s it.