Congressman John Lewis 1999 Transcript
Washington, DC
Ward Mailliard: Congressman Lewis, I’m very pleased to introduce our graduating- this is our entire senior class.
John Lewis: Oh, wonderful.
Ward Mailliard: From Mount Madonna School. We’re a small private school in California and several of their preceding classes have had the honor of interviewing you.
John Lewis: Right.
Ward Mailliard: You’ve been one of our most popular interviews in Washington, DC; so they’re all very eager to have the opportunity to talk with you. And they’ve done a little preparation after reading your book and doing a little studying; they’ve put together some questions that they wanted to ask you.
John Lewis: Well thank you very much. I’m delighted and very happy and very pleased to welcome you to capitol hill. Some of your schoolmates have been here before and they’ve been such a wonderful group, and I know you’re just as wonderful- maybe even much better. But always happy to see you. Wish you well and congratulations as you bring this assignment in your studies and in your life to an end. And I wish you well as you continue the journey searching for truth and doing what you can to create a truly world at peace with itself as we move to the 21st century.
Student: You said in your book that you dreamed of being a minister; do you think of your work in congress as sort of a secular ministry?
John Lewis: Well I do see my role in the congress as an extension of my early dream as an outgrowth of my involvement in the Civil Rights Movement. As an ongoing part of an effort to build a beloved community, to build an all-inclusive community, an all-encompassing community. When I was a very, very young child- you probably leaned from the book that I really wanted to be a minister, and I practiced preaching to the chickens. And I tell that story, you’ve probably read that story that some of those chickens that I tended to preach to- when I look back on it, those chickens tended to listen to me today, really when I look back on it, when I preached to those chickens. They tended to listen to me better than some of my colleagues listen to me in the congress. I say today that some of those chickens were butting heads, some of them shake their heads, they never quite said amen. But I think they understood what I was talking about.
Student: Many students today refer to the Civil Rights Movement as a part of history and not a current struggle. How can we encourage young people today with the spirit that inspired so many people in the Civil Rights Movement in the ‘60s? And what are some of the current issues today?
John Lewis: Well I think the Civil Rights Movement- it is history, it is ongoing history, it is a history 25, 30, 40, 50, years ago; but it is still history in the making. I think young people should do what you all are doing, and that’s what I like for students from your school to come- and like for students and young people to come and to study, to learn. Because I think by studying, by reading about the Civil Rights Movement, by reading book, writing papers, asking questions, looking at themes, people learn; and hopefully people are inspired to pick up where those of us left off. It’s an ongoing struggle. I’ve said in the past, and I say it again now: the struggle for Civil Rights, the struggle for human rights; it’s not a struggle that lasts for one day, one week, one month, or one year- it is a struggle of a lifetime. And each generation must play a role in helping to remove the remaining scars and stains of racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism, intolerance. I think all of us must do that.
Student: It seems today that we place a lot of significance on ethnic identities and roots. How can we maintain a balance of keeping ethnic ties and maintaining a sense of belonging to the larger community of America? Is your concept of the beloved community still possible in our modern society?
John Lewis: Well I think it’s possible, and I think we must appreciate diversity, recognize that we all are somewhat different, but at the same time, we’re all so much alike. To put it very simple: just maybe our foremothers and our forefathers all came to this country in different ships, but we’re all in the same boat now. So it doesn’t matter whether we’re black or white, Hispanic, Native American, Asian American; we’re one house, we’re one people, we’re one family. You know in the book I tell a story about when I was growing up outside of (can’t understand), Alabama; and you probably read the story. One Saturday afternoon, my aunt had all of us over, a group of us, about 13 or 15 of us. Young children, many of them my sisters and brothers, several of my first cousins. And we were out playing in her dirt yard. She lived in a shotgun house. I know from a school such as yours, a great school and you all are very smart. I can tell. You wouldn’t be here if you weren’t smart. But you don’t know anything about a shotgun house. My aunt lived in a shotgun house, and they had an old tin roof, and this dirt yard. She didn’t have a green manicured lawn that you see in many communities in California. But it was a dirt yard. And every Saturday, she would go and get some dark wood and tie these branches together and sweep this yard, sweep it very clean. And we were out playing in her dirt yard, and she didn’t like the fact that we were playing in her dirt yard.
But a storm came up and she suggested that we all should go inside of the house. And we went in as we were told. The lightning started flashing, the thunder started rolling, the wind started blowing, and the rain started beating on this old shotgun house. Now shotgun houses in a non-violent sense where you can throw a ball through the front door and it would bounce out the backdoor. Or, in a military sense, you can fire a gun through the front door, and the bullet would exit the backdoor. She lived in this type of house. And the wind continued to blow, and the lightning continued to flash, and the thunder continued to roll and the rain continued to beat on this old tin roof house. And she suggested that we all should hold hands. She thought this old house was going to blow away. She was scared, she was terrified. And my aunt started crying, and we all started crying as little children because we were terrified. So when one corner of the house appeared to be lifting from its foundation; we would walk to that side, trying to hold down this little old house with our little bodies. When the other corner appeared to be lifting, we would walk to that side, trying to hold this house down with our bodies. So we were little children walking with the wind.
I guess the point I’m trying to make here, that as Americans, we may be different, we may be black, we may be white, we may be young, we may be old, we may be rich, we may be poor, we may be Hispanic, Asian American, or Native American; but we are all in the same boat. So we have to create one house, one family. And we must walk together. And that’s what, in the Civil Rights Movement, we tried to do; for the past 40 or 50 years we were walking from Montgomery to Selma, or Montgomery to Selma, from Birmingham to Nashville, from Atlanta to Washington; trying to hold the American house together. So we must never leave the house. The lightning may flash, the thunder may roll, the rain may beat on the old house, the wind may blow, but we must stay together and never leave the house. That was a long way around to answer your question.
Student: I’m wondering if you think the government has, or should have, a role in creating schools and institutions in which, as you said, hope, compassion, and justice are prominent attributes.
John Lewis: Yeah I think the government should play a role in helping to create the climate, the environment in education institutions in our schools. Many- in many communities, I think we expect too much of our education institutions. We dump a lot of our problems- problems that should be solved in the homes, in our religion institutions- our churches, our synagogues, our mosques. We just expect teachers to solve all of these problems. And there’s a role for educational institutions to play. But there’s also a role for the national government to play in helping to create the climate, in helping to create the environment for people to learn, to study. To make resources available. The problem shouldn’t just be left to a particular community, or to a particular town, or to a particular city. So I think there’s a role for the government to play.
On the other hand, I think individuals, parents, private organizations, people in the media, in business, and labor, and sports; we all have a role to play in helping to educate and keep our children and our young people informed—in a sense, show them the way.
Student: At the end of your book, you state that prayer is one of the most powerful ways human kind has of reaching out. Can you say more about this?
John Lewis: Well I do think prayer is a very powerful instrument, I think it’s very powerful tool. And sometimes I think it’s necessary for individuals, individuals of faith to steal away. You know sometimes people say we need prayer in the schools. Now I’m not going to- I believe in separation of church and state. Now on the other hand, I think young people pray all the time- especially if you have a very difficult exam to try and pass, I’m sure you call on somebody, or some force, to help me through it, to help me make it through. So I think a lot of us, and I know I did at the height of the Civil Rights Movement- I didn’t necessarily make words, but when there was a very difficult decision to make, or when I was walking across that bridge at Selma, or going on that freedom ride, or sitting in here; we were constantly in prayer. You commune, you communicate, you reach out. So I can be sitting on the floor of the house before making a speech. Whether it’s dealing with going to war during the Gulf War, dealing with the whole question of impeachment, just see me through it, help me make it through this, I go to the floor just help-
So sometime we have to have what I call an executive session with ourselves. And you have to talk to yourself. That may sound sort of strange, and I think in a sense you’re praying. And I think sometimes you have to call upon the almighty just to make it through the day.
Student: Do you think that- How do you think that a prayer can be- is it popular use now in today’s society is less-?
John Lewis: Well I think for different reasons- a lot of people don’t like to talk about it. For many people, and I guess for many- especially people in public life, religion becomes a very sort of very personal, very private. But even here on Capitol Hill, we have a group called ‘Faith and Politics’ where- and it’s not something sanctioned by the congress. We’re a group of members, democrats and republicans, liberals, moderates, very conservative members; come together and we pray from time to time, we talk, we meditate. But we believe in action. We’ve been having what we call a conversation on race; a dialogue on race. We meet in our offices, in our homes, in little hideaways here on Capitol Hill.
During the past two years, as a group, we’ve taken the same way that you come from California to here, we travelled as a group with some members of our staff, with lay people, with ministers, other religious leaders, with spouses, to Selma, to Montgomery, to Birmingham, to study the Civil Rights Movement. And while we’re there, we went to- say we go to Birmingham, we go to the church where the four little girls were killed, where the church bombing took place. We go to the park where (can’t understand) in 1963. We go to Montgomery and we visited with Governor Wallace last year before he died. We went to the spot where Rosa Parks was arrested on December 1st, 1955; we went to the Greyhound bus station where people were beaten in May 1961. Went to the Civil Rights memorial- the same young lady that designed the Vietnam memorial designed all the Civil Rights memorials in Montgomery. So we went there and stayed and sang and prayed.
And then we went to Selma. We walked across the bridge together, and we knealed and prayed. And for some of these members who’d never been south, and even some who grew up in the south, they’d never been to Selma, they’d never walked across the bridge; they said this was like a religious experience for them.
Student: In your book, you write that there are clear differences between urban poverty and rural poverty, while intercity poverty is the situation of despair and pessimism; you describe a sense of dignity held by the rural poor, speaking of their tenacity and indominable spirit. In our increasingly urbanized and material society, is there any way to transform the stigma of financial poverty into something other than despair?
John Lewis: Oh, I think it’s possible, I think it’s possible. I think there’s a great deal of despair in America, especially in our large, urban centers where there’s a sense of hopelessness, where many people have just given up. They feel left out and left behind. And in many instances, they do not see major political figures, or other influential leaders or symbols coming in and saying something. They do not have politicians like Robert Kennedy, for example. Robert Kennedy, 31 years ago, had the ability, had the capacity to move around into our large urban centers and inspire people. Or going to rural areas of the deep south, into the south west Indian reservations inspiring people. We don’t have people with the capacity and the ability to do that. And I would like to see more and more elected officials and people, visible people- whether it be in entertainment, or sports, in the academic community- to spend time with children, with young people, with people that are not so young, in our large urban centers. One reason I think we have a great deal of crime and violence and drug addiction in urban America is because of the lack of hope; the sense of hopelessness. And I think in some ways, the problem is so massive and so big that you need some intervention from forces from the outside to give people that sense of hope, that sense of things can change. Most of our cities in America, we never had an organized, a disciplined, civil rights movement. And in many parts of the deep south, including small towns and rural communities; you had organized, non-violent efforts that gave people a sense of hope, a sense of optimism. People felt involved, they were participating in something. There are reports and studies that show that during the height of the Civil Rights Movement, whether it was Montgomery, or Birmingham, or Selma, or Jackson, Mississippi, or other small towns or rural communities; the crime rate went down because people felt like they were involved in something very constructive. This movement had a liberating effect on our own people in the south where you didn’t have that same type of effort in the urban centers in the north.
And then another thing. In the South and in the rural communities in particular, you have space. So I may be poor, I may not have all of the things I need or want. But if I live in rural Alabama, rural South Georgia, in the Delta or Mississippi; I can move around. Maybe my grandmother, my grandfather, my uncles, my aunts, maybe they have a garden and I can get fresh vegetables. And I can breathe clean air, I’m not in some crowded housing project in New York City, or in Chicago, or in Detroit, or in Philadelphia.
Student: Do you think it’s the connection to nature that gives people a sense of hope? Because you described like having space and (can’t hear) the land. Do you think it’s the presence of nature that helps them?
John Lewis: Oh yeah, I think so. Now I grew up on a farm and spent a great deal of time outdoors. I think there’s something about being outside. I go back to where I grew up; it’s only a three hour drive from Atlanta. My 85-year-old mother is still living on the land that my father bought in 1944 when I was four years old- and I remember when I was four. My father had saved $300 and he spent $300 to buy about 10-acres of land. And so when I go back there, at night it’s darker than a thousand midnights, but the air’s clean, it’s fresh. And during the spring and the summer you can pull of your shoes and just walk for miles and miles, and breathe the clean air. And all around you, you see all these trees, the pine trees, and the springwoods, and the dogwoods, and the flowers. So I think it’s something about being outside, the freedom. I think it’s inspiring. If you lived in the urban center, to be able to walk through a park. I think that’s why we share more green space, and that’s why we should try to keep the air clean and fresh; so people can breathe fresh and clean air, and be inspired. If you’re in areas of the country where you can hear the birds sing, or see a butterfly, or see a tree or plant grow; I think it says something. I think it creates a sense of freedom. People should be free.
Earlier today I spoke to a minister in the group, earlier this morning, and Elizabeth worked on the statement- but by helping children, by helping young people, and I got sort of carried away I guess in talking with Elizabeth yesterday. But it was very much in keeping with my thing about chickens- and you notice I have something back here- a chicken or two as symbols. I will never forget those chickens because they meant a great deal to me. In my house here in Washington, and Atlanta- and my office in Atlanta- we have a few chickens- we have a lot of them here at the house. But it gave me a sense of responsibility I guess to take care of these chickens. But I noticed we have chickens running around in the yard- in the chicken yard, and we had ourselves a hen and a little chick. You saw the mother hen teaching the young chicks how to scratch and how to sit for food. And it is something I think that, as human beings, that we must try to do- those of us that have been blessed with more, we have an obligation to help others. That we have to, in a sense, forget about our own circumstances and get involved in the circumstances of others. I think that’s what life is all about if we’re going to create the beloved community: a community at peace with itself.
Student: Even with the philosophical training you received and the tactics and spirit of nonviolence, how do you withstand the hatred and physical abuse in the actual situations?
John Lewis: As a participant in the Civil Rights Movement, I grew to accept nonviolence as a way of life, as a way of living. I came to the point to believe that means and ends are inseparable. If you’re struggling to create the beloved community, if that is the goal, if that is the end, then our means and our methods must be consistent with the goal at the end we receive. We used to sing a song in the early days of the movement: “Keep Your Eyes on the Prize”. But if you’re going to keep your eyes on the prize, you cannot be sidetracked. And then, I was not going to get angry, or get bitter, or get hostile because someone arrested me and jailed me, or someone attacked me, or because someone left me for dead, left me bloody and unconscious. Because I saw those individuals as victims. And even say to the person that beat you, the person that jailed you, the person that tried to kill you- is your brother. And so I’m not going to hate because hate is too dangerous, hate is too heavy a burden to bear. And in the process of hating someone, I destroy my own self-worth and my own dignity. And then I tried to make the point in the book that whether it was the (can’t understand) in Birmingham, or (can’t understand) in Selma, Alabama; people- (can’t understand), they weren’t born hating- at one time, they were little children, they were little babies. And so the whole question of environment and all that. So somehow, you have to find a way to reconcile people together, to win people over. And so we were not to destroy individuals, but to destroy customs and traditions, and change bad laws. That’s why you move to a community. And when you accept nonviolence as a way of life, as a way of living; you say to yourself and to others that it is a better way, it’s a more excellent way. You accept it not only as a technique, not only as a tactic, it’d become like a faucet: you can turn it on, and you can turn it off. And so you say it’s much easier just to love everybody. But if you try to choose who you’re going to love and who you’re going to hate, you’d be saying ‘well today I like Sue, and tomorrow I won’t care for Mary, today I like Jack, and tomorrow I won’t care for (can’t understand)’. So it’s just tough, it’s hard, and you have to make all these decisions- just love everybody. That’s what I say to young people and children: don’t be bitter, don’t be hostile; be kind and be loving.
Student: Does every individual, no matter how hateful have the potential to change?
John Lewis: Oh I believe that, I believe within- and this may sound a little strange, but I believe that in the very being, in the very soul of every human being, there is a spark of goodness, there is a spark of the divine. And we don’t have a right to destroy that. Some people might go wrong. They may fall off the mark. And from time to time, evil people come on the scene. But I believe somehow, in some way, all human kind has the capacity and the ability to change. You must never, ever give up on somebody.
Student: Is the beloved community the way to reach that spark?
John Lewis: Well I think the beloved community because if you engage in violence and hate as the old saying ‘violence beget violence’, so if you believe that love is a much more powerful force, maybe love will beget love and love will win people over. I think by using violent means and methods, you may have some victories, but they’re not lasting victories. Dr. King- and this may sound a little biblical here- but there’s a verse in the New Testament that the great teacher used. And he says on one occasion something like ‘think not that I come to bring peace, but a soul’. He wasn’t talking about a physical soul, he was talking about a spiritual soul, a force, that peace and order is not necessary (can’t understand) tension and conflict. And sometimes it’s necessary to stir things up, to bring out the goodness within the society, within people. During the 60s from time to time we would consider outside agitators. The reverend (can’t understand), a friend of Dr. King, one of the leaders of the movement, used to say, ‘in the washing machine- it’s an old (can’t understand) washing machine, there’s a thing in the machine called an agitator. And he said the agitator’s role was to take the clothes all around and all about to beat the dirt out of the clothes, to wring the dirt out. And he said those of us were agitators in the good sense of the word. We were bringing all of the dirt and all of the filth from under the southern rug. From all of the cracks, from all of the corners, to the top so we can deal with it. So sometimes it’s necessary in a very positive way to be a force for good, not in a violent way, but in a nonviolent way.
Student: In a comment you made regarding the 100th day of this congress, you said ‘republicans have done nothing about the budget or children’s health programs’. Despite the fact that republicans are in the majority, is there anything democrats can do to encourage these issues to be addressed?
John Lewis: Well we can- from time to time we can do something. We can introduce legislation, children’s healthcare bill. We can introduce education bill. But we don’t have the votes to pass it, unless we convince enough republican members to come over and work with us. We have a campaign finance reform bill that some of the republican members are supporting. We have what we call a discharge (can’t understand) on the floor of the house now. And almost 200 democratic members have signed this petition to get it to the floor- not a single republican member has signed. In a few days, we’re going to introduce what we call a Patients’ Rights Bill and we’re probably going to go through the (can’t understand) process also to try to get it out of committee to get it on the floor to get a vote on it. We’re not in a position to set the agenda because we’re in the minority. But we continue to teach, preach, and navigate for what those things we believe we should be doing. And hopefully in the long run, in the process, we will win enough republican members over to help us out. But the political process is much sometimes slower, drawn out. Someone said something the other night, or maybe last night- a reporter said say you cover every presidential candidate since 1960- every presidential campaign since 1960, he covered all of these scandals in Washington since Watergate, but he has never covered anything that gave him a greater satisfaction then the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s. And sometimes I feel that way in the congress. I feel like, you know, I’ve passed this way before, I’ve seen it. What else can I see? Like I’ve been here. And I say sometimes to myself, when people make it so difficult to get things done today: it’s so slow, so drawn out, and sometimes I feel like we’re saying we should just do it, just do it, it’s the right thing to do, just do it. But there’s sometimes it takes it- almost impossible. It takes so long for 435 members of the house, and 100 members of the senate, to agree on something and to get the approval of the President of the United States.
And when you look back on the 60s, in comparison to today, we have all this technology, all this information. During the 60s, we didn’t have a website, we didn’t know anything about the internet, never heard of it really. We didn’t have a cellular telephone, we didn’t have a fax machine, and a group of people came together, under the leadership of Martin Luther King Jr., with an idea, and with a great deal of inspiration, and they had a little time, and they had their bodies, and they put their bodies and their lives on the line, and they changed the country forever.
Student: Michael Sandel said, “the better response would be not to flee more argument in politics, but to engage in it, to make it better, to offer a richer, more pluralistic, more democratic moral vision; drawing in some cases on religious traditions and religious arguments.” You talked about the dialogue that’s happening between you and your colleagues. Do you think a moral- that moral arguments should play a larger part in our national debate?
John Lewis: Oh, I think so, I think so. Because you get elected to congress, elected as a member of the United States, because you hold the position of Secretary of State, or Secretary of Defense, Labor Education, or whatever; or because your Governor. You should check your sense of what is right and what is wrong. Your sense of fairness, your sense of morality. You shouldn’t check it at the door. It’s not that you go around wearing your religious conviction on your sleeves, but I think we have a moral obligation and a mission and a mandate to bring something to our position, something more than just an appetite. You understand what I’m saying? And I think the American people are becoming so wise and I think they understand more and more a lot of people in elected positions; they know a workhorse from a show horse- they can see through them. They know a rug boat from a show boat. They know when a person is real. I think on so many instances, they’re far ahead of most elected officials. Too many of us as elected officials, especially when you get to the congressional level, or when you get to the White House in particular, you can be good as gold, you start worrying about the next election, you start putting your finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing, rather than going with your heart, going with your gut and doing what is right.
Ward Mailliard: Amen.
Student: The struggle against injustice and intolerance seems eternal. Although we can make laws that- although we can make laws that make acts of prejudice illegal, what steps can we take to get to the root of the hatred and understand where it comes from? And is this even possible?
John Lewis: I think it’s possible. You know laws can control behavior, maybe. I think Martin Luther King Jr.’s, maybe Chief Justice Warren, someone else said at once- others have implied- but they cannot necessarily change hearts. And Bobby Kennedy back in 1968 in his brief campaign said something like ‘there must be a revolution of values, there must be a revolution in our hearts and our minds, and our very soul; not in the streets’. So you may pass a law to end discrimination in places of public accommodation, you may pass a law to keep people from killing someone because of their race, their color, their sex, or their sexual orientation. And you know we’re debating all around the country on a state level and federal level: hate crime laws. So you may be able to do that. But a law cannot make someone love you, or like you. Maybe the law will keep someone from killing you. So I believe that you can have, through dialogue, through people working together, through getting to know each other; a sense of community, a sense of family. In the civil rights movement, we used to call ourselves a coalition of conscience, a circle of trust, a band of brothers and sisters. I used to think that the only real integration that existed in America, was the integration in the movement itself. That you had people, black and white, especially young people, that were struggling together. People that were sitting together- it didn’t matter whether you were black or white, there were people putting cigarettes out in their hair, down their backs, pulling them off the lunch counter stool. They were being beaten together, thrown in jail together, in some instances, like the three civil rights workers in 1964; dying together: two whites, and one black. You become like a family.
I think in America, in any society, we tend to fear what we do not know. And as people get to know people, you lose that sense of fear of someone else. In the congress here, sometimes on the floor of the house, in the committee room, democrats and republicans, we argue, we fuss, we fight like cats and dogs; but if you go on a trip together, you work out in the gym together, you have lunch together or dinner together, you travel to Selma, to Birmingham, to Montgomery together, you spend days and days together. We have every Thursday morning, eight o’clock, is a prayer breakfast. A small group of members get together without any announcement, and they’re sort of a meditation group. These people get- So they become brothers, they become brothers and sisters, they become family. And so it doesn’t matter whether someone’s black or white or republican or democrat, or liberal- we may disagree on our political philosophy and views, but we stand up for each other.
Student: In the final chapter of your book, you describe the need for a true leader in order to bring about a revolution of morals and values. Who do you think could be the leaders of this revolution in today’s society?
John Lewis: Well I wouldn’t like to name anyone in particular, but I think there is a need- I think there’s a need for someone to emerge, or some group, or some individual, that will be the personification of this leader. I tend to think leaders emerge, they’re not necessarily- we elect political people from time to time. But I think leaders tend to emerge out of movements from a cause. Some person, or some group of individuals that embody that sense of vision, with a sense of passion, a sense of caring. And have in a sense a dream, a vision- a dream they can get other people to share and participate in that vision, that dream. And I think the American people want that to happen; they’re looking for that. I had an opportunity a few days ago to go to (can’t understand), New York, for the first time, and I visited the Roosevelt Library and was the family home and see what FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt did. I think president Roosevelt gave people a sense of hope, a sense of optimism. A lot of people think he saved the country maybe in the process helped save the world- I don’t know. But leaders are rare, they’re very rare. And I think during the 60s, my generation, was more than lucky, but very blessed, to have people emerge on the American scene like John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr., and Robert Kennedy. And today I don’t see individuals like that, that come along and inspire people, that get people to move, that get people to act, that get people to believe again. And we need people that will get people to believe again that we can do things, and that we can do it together.
Student: Michael Sandel, in an interview with Bill Moyers, asked the question whether self-government was possible under modern conditions and he said “if it is possible, then how do we revitalize it?” He went on to say that in America there’s a sort of minimal government, and a minimal democracy that we have. What do you think are the biggest challenges to democracy and how can we respond to these challenges?
John Lewis: Well I think the biggest challenge to democracy, and to a democracy such as ours- you know our democracy is very young, it is very young and in spite of all the problems, I think we’ve done pretty well. It’s growing, it’s making progress, it is expanding, it is still in the process of becoming. In spite of all of our wealth, and in spite of all of our resources, and in spite of all of our new technology; there’s still too many people in America left far too behind. The gap between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’, it’s not narrowing, it’s widening. There’s still too many people in our democratic society, because of their race, their color, or their gender; are not treated like others. And we have to do something about that. So we have to continue to make it real. You know we talk about creating a more perfect union; it’s not perfect yet. (can’t understand). We’re not there yet. We’re in the process of becoming. So the great challenge I think when we move toward the 21st Century and as we continue to expand and open up this democracy, we’ve got to do everything possible to equalize the situation. We say education is the great equalizer. Some of our young people, some of our children, are not receiving the best possible education. There’s still 40-million of our citizens without formal health insurance. There’s still too many people- children, low-income people, minorities- are dying before their time. So these are the challenges. We will- as much freedom as possible-
Then there’s others because of the technology, there’s people- I’m talking about well-meaning people saying ‘you’ve got to do something about the internet, you’ve got to- and then they want you to pass some law that’s going to violate some by the civil liberties. And how do you reach a happy medium? What do you do towards saying that some things should be said and some things shouldn’t be said, or some things shouldn’t be printed or should be printed. We cannot come to that point in America because of some incidents and say we can tell people what they can say and what they can read and what they can see- we cannot control people’s thoughts. So I think these are some of the challenges in this new age. Do we want to control the information? Do we want to tell the American people that you cannot read- you cannot have this in the library, you cannot see this on the internet? And do we want members of congress banning book? No. Do we want to tell the library in California, or in Georgia, or in Baltimore, or in New York City; that you cannot let people in and read said thing? I don’t think we want to come to that point. But somehow, we must- these I think are some of the challenges that we’re going to face in the days and years to come. And how do we learn to live together in a peaceful community? World community with our brothers and sisters around the world. Do we become the policemen of the world? Or do we become caring and supporting partners of others to help create a peaceful community? Some people are saying today that we don’t have the ability or business in Eastern Europe, that we (can’t understand). Some people say that’s not our fight, that’s not our struggle. Others are saying we couldn’t stand by and see a modern day Holocaust take place, we couldn’t stand for ethnic cleansing, we had to do something, we had to act.
Student: Which do you think?
John Lewis: Now you’re putting me on the spot. No, I supported our effort to stop ethnic cleansing. I supported our effort to prevent a modern day Holocaust from taking place. I don’t think history would’ve been kind to us if we hadn’t done something. But I think we’ve got to find a way to have negotiated Selma. I don’t like war, I don’t like violence, but in this process, too many people are losing their lives, too many innocent people. When the initial bombing seemed to be towards infrastructure, and what makes the whole thing to sad and so difficult; we’re bombing and bombing and bombing; destroying the infrastructure: buildings, bridges, waterways, powerlines. And we’re doing that this year, next year, or maybe earlier, we’re going to be calling up on the American tax payers to help us rebuild it.
Student: Drawing on your life experience, what is the most importance piece of advice you can give our generation?
John Lewis: More than anything else, I would say to this generation of young people: be yourself. Be yourself. And enjoy life. Be guided by your own moral compass. And find something that is so dear, something that is so precious, so meaningful, that you want to be part of. Find a way, as I tried to say earlier, not just to be concerned about your own circumstances, but the circumstances of others. (can’t understand). It could be in areas of education, healthcare, protecting and cleaning up the environment, working conditions some place. But whatever you do, try to do it and do it so well that no one else can do it any better. Stay focused, keep your eyes on the prize. My mother, in the book, my mother- I used a phrase, and sometimes it may get lost in the book. When I was growing up, my mother- and I don’t know where she got it from, and she still says it to me today sometimes when I call home- this phrase is “be particular”. For me, she’s saying to me to be mindful, to be watchful, as you move through life. On the other hand when she was saying “be particular”, she was saying you’re surrounded by your environment, be particular. And so during the past few years, I guess all of my life, I’ve tried to be particular, be mindful, be watchful. Because we only pass this way once, and I think as (name) said, ‘we should be ashamed to leave this world until we’ve made some contribution to humankind’.
Ward Mailliard: Congressman Lewis, in your book you talk about the winds of history. And you have felt the winds of history. And in a sense, I think what you’re saying to the students here is to somehow put themselves in touch with that possibility of experiencing the winds of history. And could you say something about what that feels like to you? Because obviously you have felt the winds of history and been moved by it.
John Lewis: Well, I called it the winds, or the spirit, of history. I feel sometimes like I was caught up, I was caught up and lifted my- the winds of history, or the spirit of history. And I don’t think it’s anything necessarily that I did, or said. On the other hand, I think I put myself in the way. And sometimes you have to get in the way. You don’t know what’s going to happen, you don’t know what the outcome is going to be. But you have to put yourself in the way, just get in the way. And let the wind and the spirit of history be your guide. I grew up in a very large family with six brothers and three sisters- a lot of first-cousins, almost 100 on my mother’s side alone. And then sometimes I wonder ‘why?’ What happened? Why did I get caught up? Did something reach down and touch me and pluck me out from rural Alabama? I like to think that I put myself in the way and was prepared and willing to let both the wind and the spirit of history lead me. Now if someone had told me that one day I’d come under the influence of Martin Luther King Jr., or a young guy like Jim Larson, who’s out living in Los Angeles who was our teacher of philosophy and the teaching of nonviolence. That I would get caught up in the sit-ins and the freedom rides, and be where I am today. I would’ve said ‘you’re crazy, you’re out of your mind, you don’t know what you’re talking about’. So when I started on this journey, I didn’t know one day I would be here or be someplace else. But in a way, I can look 40 years or so down the road, or 50 years down the road. When I was 10-years-old in 1950, I went downtown to the little town of Troy and tried to check a book out of the public library. And I was told by the librarian that the library was only for whites and not for colored. And I was denied the right to check a book out and I was denied a library card. This was the library that was supported by the tax-payers. But I went back to the library, to Troy (can’t understand) Library, on July 5th, last year, 1998, for a book signing. And hundreds of white and black citizens turned out and they gave me a library card. So it took me from 1950, from 1950 to July 5th, 1998, to get a library card. So you just have to go with the flow sometimes.
Ward Mailliard: Congressman Lewis, you’ve been very generous with your time. We have a little group of singers here and we’d like to give you just a little gift of the spirit-
John Lewis: Oh, good.
Ward Mailliard: -on our way out. I know that there’s lots of other demands on your time.